Tolstoy wrote:Health and safety on a work site is a different argument to safety travelling to work.
boroughonian wrote:In that case, I don't really understand why you contributed to it.
For the record, I am neither a driver nor a cyclist and I thought I could approach it from a neutral point of view, I have tried to be relatively impartial but became aghast at the resistance to safety measures and reason given for it. I think I have pointed out ad nauseam that drivers can be more than inconsiderate.
PeteStaples wrote:boroughonian wrote:In that case, I don't really understand why you contributed to it.
For the record, I am neither a driver nor a cyclist and I thought I could approach it from a neutral point of view, I have tried to be relatively impartial but became aghast at the resistance to safety measures and reason given for it. I think I have pointed out ad nauseam that drivers can be more than inconsiderate.
I think you've come across as open-minded on the topic. Quite a lot of people have entrenched opinions though so (as Tolstoy observed) these debates tend to become defensive and polarised.
I've found it interesting anyway; I'd not really considered any arguments against high-vis jackets - to me they are the most essential safety garb on a bike (with full length sleeves, by the way). That's based on how many cars pull out or pedestrians step out on me when I'm not wearing one, and also on how difficult it can be to see people in dark clothing at night time, if the lighting is poor. The dazzling quality of car headlamps and most bike lights exacerbates this.
I can sort of see the idea that if most people wear a high-vis then it indirectly makes the odd ones out more vulnerable. But does that make people selfish for wearing them?!
Tolstoy wrote:But where is this idea of cyclists being 'invisible' coming from? I see hundreds of them on a daily basis with no problem whatsoever. This idea people should light up like a Christmas tree because others are not using due diligence comes across as trying to pass the buck.
boroughonian wrote:I accept that all road users need to take responsibility and nobody's saying that anyone's invisible. It's about heightening visibility. Where did the idea that building site workers are invisible come from? It's about taking every measure possible to ensure the safety of all road users. This is just one aspect of it, I know there are other issues regarding inconsiderate drivers and there's an awful lot of buck passing going on, from both sides of this debate.
You cannot possibly believe that a cyclist riding on a dark night/morning wearing dark clothing is as visible as one not.
This isn't just about drivers and cyclists, there's the small matter of pedestrians as well, many of which are elderly.
I also feel that a hi vis vest might take away excuses from inconsiderate drivers.
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