Climate protesters.

Jules62 wrote:

Paramount wrote:

boris wrote:

You hoping for a return of a Franco regime style baton charge?
I must admit those 10 year olds I witnessed on Marble Arch today. colouring pictures in do present a radical danger and a vile obstruction.

That is not the point.. When I was a child I was encouraged actively by my parents to lend devote my mind and energies to more restful child like pursuits. Politics should be reserved for proper adults. The actress Emma what's a name is a trouble maker incidentally

I take it that, clearly, your parents did not encourage you to study history, or join a debating society (something that is very good for the development of children and young adults).

I think we can all learn something from 15 year old Greta Thunberg, here speaking at a United Nations conference:

SE1 You tube

not for 10 year old kids though

Paramount wrote:

We must act robustly now against these reprobates...how dare they try hold us to ransome! NO NO NO !!!!! Police have asked other forces for help and hopefully government will act effectively whatever it takes..to end this criminal farcical behaviour...

Who is "we"? Not the police, as they just do their job. And since there is none of that criminal behaviour you mention, there isn't much more they can do to step up their action. What you want them to do would be against the law. Which is ironic.

The police are obviously not inclined to Franco style hard on the protesters.

I'd rather have a 13-year old climate protester than a violent 13-year old Pro-Brexit campaigner attacking police.

I believe climate change is real. Now on to my understanding of the facts. I think the Extinction Rebellion protests have plugged into the same use of populism in politics that delivered Trump and Brexit, exploiting peoples fears, and most of the official bodies responsible for promoting co2 reduction are strangely silent on the fastest and most productive way of reducing the carbon footprint. Birth control. Not having an extra child reduces a families carbon footprint by nearly 30 times more than any other form of carbon emission reduction, 58 tons of CO2 a year!. Yes far more than going vegan, getting rid of a car, flying less, or recycling. Go google it and wonder how many of those sitting on the bridge at Waterloo have more than one or two kids. How selfish have they been contributing to this climate emergency. I am being deliberately provocative to show how complicated the subject of emission reduction is and the type of conversations that aren’t happening. Their use of the word extinction is correct of course, but the timescale for humans is many, many generations. Researchers believe many hundreds of years. That doesn’t mean we should do nothing. The solution is global and political and naive anarchic organisers of this illegal bridge protest aren’t telling the whole truth themselves. One wonders what their real agenda might be?

" Jerry
One wonders what their real agenda might be?"

No "agenda", the reasons for their protests are exactly the ones they give. It might be interesting to hear what you infer their "real agenda" may be though.

Jerry over population has been ignored as contributing to the worlds problems. When going to register my fathers death in 1981 in east London, the registrar was holding her upper arm saying her TB jab was hurting. She'd had it done that day. I asked why she had it done and she said it was compulsory because of Pakistani immigrants had TB. I was amazed as at that time TB was something spoke about in hushed voices.

The trouble is she explained was in Pakistan they had eight or nine children and sadly half of then died. Here in UK thankfully the children lived. But culturally they still had massive families, which are still increasing by marrying young. And girls are shipped out to Pakistan to marry young and it starts again.

No before anyone reading this post jumps on the racist comment wagon, I have three dual heritage grandchildren (Spanish) one Peruvian step grandchild, and lastly my grand daughter is married to a Pakistani and is expecting her first child by him.

I always remember the earnest speech given by RSPCA rep. Years ago saying one un spayed cat can result in hundreds of kittens ..makes you think! Seriously I think people should be rewarded for not having children, and the feckless lot who procreate without worrying about caring for their little ones, or being able to afford them are mad!

Pointless rant over, sorry Jerry .

eDWaRD WooDWaRD wrote:

" Jerry
One wonders what their real agenda might be?"

No "agenda", the reasons for their protests are exactly the ones they give. It might be interesting to hear what you infer their "real agenda" may be though.

Err. I don’t know that’s why there’s a question mark. My point is that their protest may be loud but sadly the arguments are too simplistic with child like solutions proposed whilst ignoring inconvenient facts. Reminds me of those other protests in favour of Brexit and the “build the wall” rhetoric In the USA. As you can tell I’m not a fan of this style of populism.

The ballot box is the place to really make a difference, and even then it ain’t perfect but it’s kept the peace here until now. Populism is such a dangerous route. Look how personal and divisive it’s becoming. The message is being lost in the confrontation.

Jan the old one wrote:

Pointless rant over, sorry Jerry .

No need to apologise. It shows an understanding of the complexities we face in combatting climate change. There are 195 countries in the world and to combat climate change we need all of them to come to the party. We need politicians and religions to agree amongst themselves, will Catholics around the world understand not having too many babies may actually be God's will, I imagine that's not going to be influenced by a tiny middle class protest on one continent.

"Jerry

Err. I don’t know that’s why there’s a question mark."

Yet you assert that "naive anarchic organisers of this illegal bridge protest aren’t telling the whole truth" and that "sadly the arguments are too simplistic with child like solutions proposed whilst ignoring inconvenient facts". Sounds to me that imply the protesters have a different "real agenda" because you can't substantiate that there actually is a "real agenda", different from their actual agenda. So, in the absence of any proof to the contrary, in response to your "One wonders what their real agenda might be?" - their real agenda is exactly what they say it is. As opposed to the Brexiters' brand of populism, Extinction Rebellion protesters are very clear in their argument, there is nothing simplistic or childlike in their demands, they hit the crux of climax change on the head. It is not divisive, as the margin between acknowledgers and deniers is much bigger than in the Brexit farce, with only a minority resisting the fact that climate change is real and that action can and must be taken. Between their solutions and yours re birth control, I find theirs far more feasible and realistic. Speaking of which:


"...wonder how many of those sitting on the bridge at Waterloo have more than one or two kids. "

I don't have any figures on that, and I doubt you do, so it is impossible to determine "How selfish have they been contributing to this climate emergency", if indeed we accepted your point re birth control. We've seen how many people Extinction Rebellion have managed to bring together, how many do you think you could bring together if you were to demonstrate in favour of your birth control cause? The public could stop flying and driving tomorrow, by their own volition. You can't get people stop having children tomorrow without forcing them. Procreation is a natural instinct to all creatures, flying and driving isn't.

Quote:

I don't have any figures on that, and I doubt you do, so it is impossible to determine "How selfish have they been contributing to this climate emergency", if indeed we accepted your point re birth control. We've seen how many people Extinction Rebellion have managed to bring together, how many do you think you could bring together if you were to demonstrate in favour of your birth control cause? The public could stop flying and driving tomorrow, by their own volition. You can't get people stop having children tomorrow without forcing them. Procreation is a natural instinct to all creatures, flying and driving isn't.

Please don’t misquote or selectively misrepresent another poster. I clearly said “extra child” not NO child. You make your argument weaker by deliberate misquotation. The UK economy cannot make the 6 year change to zero carbon without the kind of austerity not seen since a global world war. We need to discuss global economics and include birth rates at a global level for the climate changes proposed. It is not my point alone, please fact check the CO2 contributions of various things within our control. Personally I think procreation is controllable as most people don’t have dozens of kids do they? I did my own research and made my own mind up after looking at the experts. I’m sure you’re doing your bit like I am for climate change reduction and can’t wait for the 194 other countries to implement even half of the measures London has already done and is proposing doing more.
I wonder what the actual agenda of ER is as their stated goal of zero carbon production by 2025 is unattainable according to everything I’ve read. So it is either naive or they realise it’s unattainable. Make your own choice.