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Junction at Weston Street / Law Street / Wilds Rents

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Friday 21 June 2019 5.50pm
Hi all,

I was just wondering if anyone else has an issue crossing the junction on Weston street/Law street and Wilds Rent?

As a pedestrian I am finding it difficult and time consuming to cross at times as there are cars coming fast around the corner from Weston/Law St and Wilds Rent but also speeding bikes on the cycle path.

In particular peak times such as mornings can be difficult as school children need to cross this road as well.
Sometimes you can be left waiting on the roadside for minutes as you need to look in all four directions (including bike lane) before you can cross.

It would be great if there was a zebra crossing of some sort to allow pedestrians to cross safely and also reduce the speeds that some of the cars and bikes travel at on this junction.

Let me know your thoughts?
Saturday 22 June 2019 6.34am
Hi Frances16

I have experienced the same every day during the school drop-0ff and pick up.
Agree that there needs to be a safe pedestrian crossing at the junction as you can just be standing on the pavement for a long time waiting for motor/ cycle traffic to pass before itís safe to cross (but even then, I have experienced cyclists cycling very fast and very close to me just as I am approaching the kerb at the Law Street end ( Iím not an anti cyclist, just someone who wants to cross the road safely without getting hit).
Perhaps drum up support for a safe pedestrian crossing from nearby local school and nurseries as well?
Sunday 23 June 2019 4.42pm
It's really dangerous. My wife has been almost hit pushing a buggy across Rothsay Street.

Grange Primary School now has a lolly-pop lady/man to deal with cyclists, but of course that's just in Webb Srteet, rather than the junction you're referring to.
Monday 24 June 2019 10.49am
As a cyclist the speed of motor vehicles coming from Wilds Rents into Law Street (often without indicating) is quite dangerous and it's clearly not comfortable for the many pedestrians who need to cross here to access schools etc.

It's just really bad highway design, to have a give way junction for motor vehicles, and a give way junction for the cycle path at the same point. If it were two road junctions it wouldn't be allowed but somehow it's OK as one of them is a cycle path!

In short I think the whole junction needs properly designing instead of, as they have done, just tacking on a cycle path as a give way junction. Definitely worth taking up with your local councillor.
Monday 24 June 2019 12.36pm
The same issues occur around the junctions of Webber Street, Great Suffolk Street and Southwark Bridge Road. The biggest problem here are speeding cyclists rather than cars. They have absolutely no concern for pedestrians attempting to cross, that includes when the traffic lights are red and on the pedestrian crossing outside The Libertine. Add to that their rudeness and arrogance shouting and ringing bells at pedestrians attempting to cross (including when they should be sat at the lights), cycling on the pavement to avoid the lights etc.
Monday 24 June 2019 10.29pm
Frances, I fully agree. I cross that road every day and there are often near accidents. Cars tend to drive way too fast and seem to be coming from all directions, whereas cyclists coming from Rothsay Street also add to the mix of road users, also at high speed.
Tuesday 25 June 2019 9.31am
Colinio wrote:
It's just really bad highway design, to have a give way junction for motor vehicles, and a give way junction for the cycle path at the same point. If it were two road junctions it wouldn't be allowed but somehow it's OK as one of them is a cycle path!

No, not at all. The junction at Wild's Rents and Decima Street requires traffic in both directions to give way. In any event, they are staggered give way signs. The cyclists are required to give way as otherwise they would blindly proceed into the path of traffic at that stage still completely within Law Street and still proceeding (but slowing) for the junction with Weston Street.

Colinio wrote:
As a cyclist the speed of motor vehicles coming from Wilds Rents into Law Street (often without indicating) is quite dangerous and it's clearly not comfortable for the many pedestrians who need to cross here to access schools etc.

Don't be silly. The junction is too tight with the kerbline having been built out for anything other than threading through by motorists. It is tight enough in a Ford KA, let alone anything bigger.. The real problem - as a motorist that uses the bit oyu're on about daily, and actually lives on the estate just behind it - is cyclists paying no heed of the requirement to give way.
Tuesday 25 June 2019 11.04am
Hi everyone,
Thanks for your views, I am glad to see I am not the only one having a problem!

I also drive around this area and although I do find cars can speed around the bend on Law street/Wilds rent, I agree it is the cyclists that speed without stopping that are the real risks.
Cars are more easy to hear and see whilst cyclists tend to be much harder to spot.

It seems that once the light is green on Webb street/Tower Bridge pedestrian and cycle crossing (that is another issue!), it is a straight run for a lot of cyclists to speed along and go right around Rothesay /Law Street.

It is also the volume of cyclists that is the problem, as at peak times there are at least 10-15 cyclists each time so once one cyclist has right of way you can be left standing waiting for other cyclists in the pack to pass before the next stream of cars or cyclists from another direction come by.

It feels like at peak times there is only a small window of opportunity for a pedestrian to safely cross which then increases risky behaviour from some pedestrians as they jump into the road unable to wait.

I have seen the give way signs but agree these tend to be poorly heeded by many cyclists and I think increased signage is needed on this junction overall.

Someone suggested the Local Councillor which is a good start but I would appreciate any other pointers of how we can get this issue addressed. Southwark Council? Highways Agency?
Also if anyone is interested in offering support please let me know as I have never done this before but fear it is only a matter of time before a bad accident involving a pedestrian at this junction will occur.
Thursday 27 June 2019 5.34pm
I am aware of what the traffic markings require however two give ways within a metre or so of each other and at right angles to each other does not happen if they are both full highways, and that was my point.

It is also a simple fact that cars and vans sometimes do go around the corner southbound without indicating and at a considerable speed. The way they achieve this is not by driving a slow Ford Ka and obeying the lane markings, but sportier cars and high spec vans that simply continue through this junction at 20mph without braking by going wide. I have nearly been taken out by a van in this way which had not indicated. For fairness I can also say I have braked here quite gently as a cyclist and had another cyclist go into the back of me though it was only mildly annoying and not dangerous. A junction is not meant to pit cars against cyclists or other road users so even if users of this forum enjoy boiling most traffic issues down to car vs cyclist the pedestrians here will find both worrisome, and to solve both issues you need to redesign the junction in terms of its geometry and/or priorities.

I lived on Law Street for six years and my post was supportive of the original poster, with practical insights on how to improve a junction that is unpleasant for vulnerable pedestrians such as children. I have experience in persuading TfL to realign one of their strategic roads in SE1 following three KSIs, which was achieved through a handful of polite letters via my councillor and MP and Sir Peter Hendy, none of whom called me silly, but thanks all the same!
Friday 28 June 2019 11.33am
Colinio wrote:
I lived on Law Street for six years and my post was supportive of the original poster, with practical insights on how to improve a junction that is unpleasant for vulnerable pedestrians such as children. I have experience in persuading TfL to realign one of their strategic roads in SE1 following three KSIs, which was achieved through a handful of polite letters via my councillor and MP and Sir Peter Hendy, none of whom called me silly, but thanks all the same!

If that is the case, and given the past tense you write in, and given also the cycle lane has only been there properly for a couple of years, you will be able to contrast the before and after. What was previously a safe and quiet junction is now teeming with (some) irate cyclists hammering across it, and down the adjoining roads, with excess speed, with little/no regard for other road users.

I didn't detect much in the way of support for the original poster - instead you sought to blame what is dangerous/reckless behaviour on the part of some cyclists on a badly designed junction. A matter of semantics, but my "silly" comment was directed at that view rather than you as a person. However, given your experience with councillors, etc, maybe you can help get it sorted?

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