Just read in south london press that great dover street is to be exempt from the 20mph ruling....lets hope the relevant department can sort out the traffic lights sequence at the borough..from long lane onto g.dover st. sheer chaos last night.
You have to distinguish is the cause of an accident from the cause of death or injury.
Bad driving causes accidents, and speeding is just a part of bad driving - as well as mobile phone use, eating, smoking, aggressiveness, and so on. People rushing into the road can also cause an accident.
Speed causes death and injury, when an accident occurs. If I run into a parked car, then I'm an idiot but I'm unlikely to die. If a moving car colides with me, the consequences are worse the faster it is going. Therefore it is wise to mitigate the outcome of a possible accident by driving slowly. You cannot avoid all accidents by simply being a "good driver" - some circumstances are out of your control.
By controlling speed, we seek to make the outcome of an accident less bad.
Of course, it is wise to also reduce the likelihood of an accident in the first place, but much harder to do from the authorities' point of view. Speed control is one good way of doing it, for obvious reasons - it is easier to avoid an accident if you're travelling slowly.
Please no more quoting from SafeSpeed or ABD, it won't do your argument any favours.
> Yes, very interesting Jerry. But do you have any
> constructive alternative propositions to lowering
> the speed limits?
> ...if you press it, they will come
Yes Ivanhoe I did have proposals in my first posting on this thread:" If pedestrians crossed at the proper crossings and were fined if caught crossing on Red signals as are car drivers many lives could be saved".
As I drive around London streets I am amazed by the chances some pedestrians take when dashing across roads, often with children in tow. How many of us have seen people crossing roads 10 yards from a traffic light junction or Panda crossings? Don't get me wrong I do approve of speed limits, I feel 20 mph is too low a proposal for most London A and B roads, though fine for school or hospital/special residential roads.
Car drivers are fined for crossing red lights? Really? How many do you know of? I promise you I cross at least a dozen junctions a day, and I see cars, buses, lorries, bikes, all regularly jumping red lights. Why hasn't our courts system collapsed under the strain of all these miscreants being dragged through them? Has legislating against the use of mobile phones while driving caused a dramatic drop in accident rates? Because it certainly hasn't stopped an awful lot of people doing it. Try being a pedestrian for a few weeks in London. I walk five miles a day, to and from work, and some of the things I see are shocking: I regularly see drivers composing text messages; twice in the last week I've seen people negotiating junctions while reading maps; drivers who won't stop while I'm walking over zebra crossings; and those who overtake those who have stopped. Sooner or later I'll be hit by one of these kings (and queens) of the road, and my chance of survival will be increased greatly if they could be persuede to drive slower. Incidentally, I bet that if I were to ask any of these drivers were they good? They'd say they were, and go on to complain about other road users, you never hear people admitting to being crap - it's always somebody else.
> Car drivers are fined for crossing red lights?
> Really? How many do you know of? I promise you I
> cross at least a dozen junctions a day, and I see
Look I don't want this thread to degenerate into the usual polarised slagging off of various interest groups. I have not suggested all pedestrians are idiots, nor would I suggest all drivers are idiots either. Anyone who would suggest such a thing only exposes their bigotry to ideas different to their own. We all need rules, drivers and pedestrians, those who break the rules should be dealt with within those rules. If the council listens to the pedestrian groups and confirms a lower speed limit I will be one of the ones trying to stick to it, as will many, but not all drivers. Contrary to Barkyhead's views that "cars, buses, lorries, bikes, all regularly jumping red lights", I don't believe all drivers do, nor did I say that all pedestrians behave recklessly, life is never that black and white, unfortunately. Let's all think of other road users and pedestrians as potential risks by all means, those of us who use two wheels do this as a matter of course, those who don't shouldn't be driving cycling or walking at all! This does not make me believe a 20 mph blanket limit is suitable to keep London working and practical.
.........and driving in bus lanes; parking on junctions, red lines, yellow lines; cluttering up box junctions; driving the wrong way up one way streets; never indicating; having lights that don't work.......tra-la-la-these are a few of my favourite things......
I'm not suggesting that all drivers do this, but enough do for it to be a problem.
barkyhead's tip for drivers:
Drivers, did you know that if you were all to maintain the safe distance per speed ratio as recommended by the Highway Code, and stick to all the other rules governing use of the roads, there would hardly be any traffic jams, and you'd almost certainly never stop on a motorway? Think about it, no really, think about it..................
I think I have posted this toothsome morsel before.....whilst sitting on the bus few years back ..saw driver in car take a pair of false teeth out ...then carefully applied an adherive paste to the uppers before replacing...aand steering the car while trying to replace the cap
> Yes Ivanhoe I did have proposals in my first
> posting on this thread:" If pedestrians crossed at
> the proper crossings and were fined if caught
> crossing on Red signals as are car drivers many
> lives could be saved".
So, let me get this straight: you agree that there's a problem with dangerous and overcrowded roads, and the way to solve it is business as usual for cars and penalties for pedestrians?