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Congestion Charging

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dan
Thursday 8 August 2002 7.09pm
surely not each bus need only have around 5 passengers to take up less road space than the fabulously stupid drivers pottering around with one person per car

favourite dumb saying of single drivers

"it is all these buses causing the congestion"

sorry about this but that is just silly

and therefore you are a silly person
Friday 9 August 2002 7.59am
WHen I started work in the 70s I remember seeing a large number of Rolls Royces in the City. This number has declined in favour of an increased number of 'normal' cars. This indicates that an increased number of normal motorists like myself can drive to work and that manyu rich people are preferring alternative means. Might the congestion charge see a revesal of this trend?

By the way, in the 70s I drove my Reliant Rebel into work until I bought my first bycicle and then I cycled each day for 10 years.
Friday 9 August 2002 9.13am
The selfishness of some of people in this debate is depressing. Maybe Thatcher was right: there is no such thing as society.
Friday 9 August 2002 9.29am
What is wrong with some people on this forum? You read a response and then decide to try and interpret it in another way. Dan - I was simply questioning the design of the bus, nothing else. Have you sat and watched one try to pull out of London Bridge station? My question was "what was wrong with the double decker?"
dan
Friday 9 August 2002 10.29am
sorry tony you are right the articulated buses do take a bit longer to get round corners

I think the company that made them decided to only make single deckers and no new double deckers are being made though I could be wrong about this

but your comment about buses reminded me of a general thing I have noticed

getting stuck behind buses might be frustrating, in fact this frustration seems common to lots of transport problems the irritation you get when you are stuck in traffic (you know that situation when you are late for work and the vehicle you are on is not moving because of trouble up ahead)

thing is though I think for drivers this frustration seems to arise earlier than if you are on a train or bus (though I must confess to getting pretty furious on both) and results in some silly ideas

the current spate of articles about cyclists and how "anti social" they are shows examples of this complaints include about how cyclists weave throught the traffic and hog the middle lane

my suspicion is one of the things about driving is that it has the idea of freedom associated with it the adverts show the open road with no other traffic, the driver an independant spirit and in real life cars do give real freedoms to people

however this results in cognitive dissonance when drivers observe someone else using the road more effectively than them

"it must be wrong that cyclists can weave throught the traffic because.... I am stuck and I paid a lot for this car.....cyclists should not hog the road beacuse only drivers are supposed to do that .....that bus is slowing me down unreasonably because..... my journey is more important than the people on the bus...(I mean if they were significant they be using cars wouldnt they?)"

I dont drive or cycle I use public transport though on this recent cycling thing I think the idea that cyclists are more dangerous than drivers is simply ridiculous

drivers want to keep driving and are prepared to pay a lot for a car for car tax and will probably pay for the congestion charge because driving is nicer for them than using a cycle or public transport
Friday 9 August 2002 12.24pm
Good lord - here we have the real motorist speaking. I bought my car, will use my car, will shop in my car, and to hell with the rest of you. And yuck to public transport. No wonder 'm' that you didn't get on with Ken in the GLC period - you appear to be as far to the right as he was to the left. That would not give much room for amiable relations.

However, you raise the question about shopping. Well I suppose you mean having to go to one of the large supermarkets which are surrounded by mammoth car parks. There are some points here:
1. They are served by buses - which are frequent and good, and at 70p out of central regions offer phenomenal value for money. Use of books of tickets reduces that down further too!
2. What about the local stores - which if not used will shut, and we will all be worse off.
3. For a small delivery charge the large supermarkets offer on-line shopping. Not for the one off items - see point 2 - but for the large shopping this is ideal. I use Tesco, and their delivery people from the Surrey Quay store are really friendly and helpful.

But I do hope you will try the buses from time to time. I feel saddened that you will automatically get a 90% Congestion Charge rebate. Car use needs to be reduced, significantly reduced. Ever heard of Global warming, and the urgent need to reduce greenhouse gases. What do you think that exhaust pipe of your car chucks out into the atmosphere?
MM
Friday 9 August 2002 12.37pm
I could reiterate all the damning statistical evidence that I already posted up elsewhere in this discussion forum in terms of the real cost of motoring- to the NHS (deaths, injuries, asthma etc.) to the Environment, to the UK economy. But I really can't even be bothered to argue with you pig-ignorant, selfish, stupid, lazy motorists any more- Suffice to say that I think it is bloody funny that you tragic little losers will have to pay all that cash to sit in traffic jams every day. HAAAAA HAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! VOTE KEN VOTE KEN VOTE KEN VOTE KEN VOTE KEN VOTE KEN.
MM
Friday 9 August 2002 12.42pm
1 day bus pass (Zones 1 to 4) = 2
1 cross of the boundary a day in a car = 5

In other words: 1825 a year by car, or 730 a year by bus.

A saving of 1095, before you even think of road tax, insurance, cost of car, repairs, parking, etc. etc.

You car drivers really are thick as...
Friday 9 August 2002 12.50pm
MM - you really do talk a load of bigoted claptrap.
Friday 9 August 2002 1.21pm
No, MM is basically correct. Buses are very reasonable - and even more so if you get a longer term bus pass - say for a week (and you don't need a photo permit). This will allow access across the whole city (Zones 1-4). Further afield then the rail and tube services offer reasonable alternatives.
Now compare that with just gas costs for a car, and wherever you go you have to pay parking costs - and that is before you add in all the other costs.
And compare the improvement of quality that has occured in cities such as Oxford and Cambridge since the introduction of the Park and Ride schemes. In the 70's Cambridge was choked with cars, and now it is much more pleasant.
Cars have held sway in London for too long. I enjoy walking around London - but in so many places I have to cover a much greater distance allowing traffic precedence. Well if you don't know what I mean then try walking - and note how much you are hemmed in by metal railings, pedestrian lights take you half way across the road to wait again, underground maze deviations (Elephant, and Bricklayers), bridges over roads. Then when it rains the huge puddles building up due to poor street cleansing - and the stupid and selfish drivers dashing through the puddles drenching the pedestrians. And the selfish drivers dashing through zebra crossings, and pedestrian and traffic lights to avoid having to wait. Perhaps Ken will improve the pedestrians lot and investigate walking around London.
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