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Liberty & Livelihood March

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Thursday 19 September 2002 7.02pm
I feel that the march has been hijacked by the noisy pro-hunt lobby. That is a sad fact - there is much concern from the countryside folk. That we can buy milk for less than its production cost, that housing is so expensive, or in too short supply. But why create such a loud militant pressure group. The government needs to be involved, and fairness needs to be introduced. But, at the same stage, there does seem to be some odd management going on. Maybe CAP is partly to blame, and the withdrawal of the subsidy has left many exposed. But not all country folk are pro-hunters - and putting this issue as their main point sadly undervalues their main issues. An excellent example of the noisy minority with a problem steam rolling their own issues into the lime light.

Mike Boyle
Thursday 19 September 2002 9.46pm
I feel that I need to reply to Countryside Fan, and the recent posting.
Yes, I agree that there is probably no humane way of killing animals. However, do we need to do it. My initial posting argues that the weak and aged animals will die off anyway.

And then, Countryside Fan, you mention the Americans and the death penalty. Guess what, I do not agree with Capital Punishment either. The US is one of only a very few countries that use such barbaric penalties. No, of course there is no humane way of killing a human. They know. They know their time is up. Even Turkey has at last abolished the death penalty, and interestingly reduces the hurdle into the EEC. State executions are murder under a different name. I am glad I am British, and that no longer are people hung.

I agree, no longer is hunting the preserve of the wealthy. But how can those on foot keep up with those galloping on horses. And, at the end of the day, when they eventually catch up, what do they get?

I certainly do not agree with spreading glass shards on the field to sabotage the hunts. Two wrongs do not make a right. I do not agree with obnoxious adverts against wearing fur coats, or, attacks against ladies wearing such garments. But I will not want to talk to them. OK, should they ask directions, then I would give (albeit grudingly) directions.

And then Country Bumkin you say "why should we have to suffer for the class hatred which has nothing to do with the fox". Dooh! The whole hunt thing is to do with killing foxes, hares and stags. No animal should be subject to such evils. And to compare fishing. Bah!

Mike Boyle
Friday 20 September 2002 5.43am
I think you are missing the point of what this March is about. It isn't about whether you are pro or anti hunting, personally I think it's barbaric, but I am aware that the fox would be exterminated if hunting were banned.

The liberty and livelihood march is to bring the governments attention to the fact that those of us that live and work outside the city have had enough of the government metaphorically stomping on our lives with great hob nail boots. Purely to get votes.

The government will jump on any issue that gets them popular appeal whether they understand it or not. If it got enough votes we would be required by law to paint our fields pink and stand in them wearing sacking smocks with an EEC calibrated straw hanging out of our mouths every Sunday morning to be photographed by passing ramblers.

We are marching to say let us run our own lives. Do not stamp on hundreds of years of tradition in the name of election votes. The countryside is not a showpiece for tourists it is a working environment with its own unique needs and pressures that this government repeatedly challenges and proves it does not understand.
Friday 20 September 2002 9.41am

what's a 'sacking smock'?

...and why are all these country folk suddenly posting on our forum - which is normally full of stuff on crap new building plans, congestion charges and useful recommendations for late night drinking?

are they trespassing?

Farmer Steve (straw in mouth).
Friday 20 September 2002 9.54am
Sorry Russ but I think it's you that is missing the point

From the march website

"Anyone who does not subscribe to all five principles of our march - and these crucially include the right for people to decide for themselves whether they may hunt - will not be welcome on it".

You are right in saying that the countryside is not a showpiece for tourists but unfortunately due to the major shifts in food production, distribution and retail many (not all) rural areas rely on the tourist pound to survive.

I'm all for keeping the countryside a proper working environment, but I don't think that banging the pro foxhunting drum is the way to achieve this. You say that banning foxhunting is a big vote winner, is it really? I think that their are many issues deemed more important by the majority of voters in this country that defines who they vote for if that were not the case don't you think hunting would have been banned a long while ago seeing as the majority of people in this country want it banned.

I think it's a shame that the hunting lobbyists hijack what is a genuine cause for concern and debate, thereby alienating the marchers from a large amount of people who otherwise support what they are trying to achieve
Friday 20 September 2002 9.55am
A Sacking Smock (probably miss spelt as education is a little thin on the ground north of Watford) is the stereotypical dress of 18th / 19th century farmers that still regularly appears in cartoons.

I can only speak for myself but, I am here because your debate in this forum has put you in the top ten hits on google. Under the search phrase "Liberty and Livelihood March".

Friday 20 September 2002 10.17am
buscuit boy,

Actually within the phrase you copied is the precise point. "these crucially include the right for people to decide for themselves."

I personally am against hunting, my reasons for participating in the march are my own business. The hunting fraternity do shout the loudest, I assume they are fed up with being stereotyped as heartless snobs, which some are but the majority aren't. I also think it is unfortunate that the pro hunt lobbyists are the most visible on this occasion as there are a lot more significant points to be made.

This government swings with the wind of popular opinion, hopefully Sundays March will change that winds direction a little.

Once a way of life is outlawed that is the end of it, this should happen for better reasons than the short term ambitions of winning the popular vote, which I firmly believe is the case.

Regarding tourism, yes that is fast becoming the most significant form of income in many areas, but I would like people to appreciate rural Britain for what it is, not as a government recycled theme park.


Friday 20 September 2002 10.57am
Sorry for taking up more space on your forum but an analogy has come to mind that I think is most appropriate to this particular forum.

This might ruffle some feathers but despite my ancestry coming from City Road in the East End I don't like London. I only come down when it is absolutely necessary. When I'm there I feel claustrophobic, unclean and unsafe.


If this was 1940 and I was still in my twenties I know that I would have been prepared to die to defend it, your right to live there and subsequently your lifestyle, as I guess many rural young men did. Those that are born to or choose the country lifestyle simply want that same respect.

Just an analogy, I will trouble you no more.


Friday 20 September 2002 11.23am
This march is really about a bunch of Tories, peeved that they're not getting their own way anymore. They never stood up for the miners, or the dockers or the steelworkers when they lost their way of life - why on earth should anyone stick up for them?
Friday 20 September 2002 11.27am
And that Hitler was against hunting ...

... just another thought, one of the key indicators for someone who becomes a serial killer is torturing small animals as a child.
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