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Liberty & Livelihood March

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Friday 20 September 2002 12.40pm
Sometimes I dispair

The march is not about a bunch of tories or toffs I think you will find that there are a lot of very hard working people who have genuine issues and concerns and to dismiss them by hinting that this is purely a class issue is a very patronising thing to do.

Unfortunaltely I think the type of cityfolk who support hunting tend to be toffs or tories, the kind who use huge 4 x 4's to take there kids to Chelsea prep, this is just the same as the type of people who tend to be protrayed as environmental activists, bypass protestors who to me seem to be involved purley because they have nothing better to do. These people become the accepted faces of their causes but rarely are a true representation of the majority of those concerned.
Friday 20 September 2002 12.41pm
Am I going mad? Was WWII really about London as Russ Brown suggests? I thought it was anti-fascism, not pro-urbanicity.

And does "Anyone who does not subscribe to all five principles of our march - and these crucially include the right for people to decide for themselves whether they may hunt - will not be welcome on it". really mean the same as "these crucially include the right for people to decide for themselves"

I don't think so.

Now I am the opposite of Russ Brown. I was born and bred in the country (in a very rural community - I used to have to travel 12 miles to school) I HATED the country - as soon as I finished my A-levels I came to London, and go back to the country as little as possible. And the reason I hated it was because of the lack of facilities, the lack of opportunity, the lack of public transport, and the small-mindedness of the people who lived there. Now, before there's an outcry, I am not saying that all country dwellers are small-minded, but when you live in a small community, narrow-minded people have a much bigger impact on your life than in a large place like London.

BUT moving to London was my choice, as moving to the country was Russ's, I presume. But when I lived in the country, I didn't think the reason it was so crap was because of people who lived in London or the government. It was crap because of market forces. So, people in the country cannot afford to buy houses - nor can people in London. There is a lack of jobs - as there is in London. The economy in the country is doing badly - well, it's not that hot in London either, you know. The country way of life is changing - have you been to Docklands recently? The problems faced by rural communities are not unique, they are the same as the problems faced across the country - just the details are different.

But, as Biscuit Boy correctly pointed out, the crucial factor in deciding whether or not to go on this march is that if you think that hunting should be banned, then you are not welcome to go on the hunt. So, even if you sympathise with the problems people face in the country and want to do something about it, you will not be welcome if you have moral or ethical objections to hunting.
Friday 20 September 2002 6.33pm

Amazed we've made it into the top 10 on google - James, that's something to be proud of!

To those who say that the march has been hijacked by the pro-hunt lobby, may I just point out that the march is being run by the pro-hunt lobby.

The march is about hunting. Much as we love our rural post offices, I'm afraid that you wouldn't get upwards of a quarter of a million people marching against the inability to buy a first class stamp in Much Haddem by the Wall.

People are welcome to bring other issues to the fore at this march, but by their presence they are agreeing that they support hunting. (This to avoid the ridiculous situation we had at the last march of Labour MPs marching becuase they liked fields (or whatever) and tried to take the focus of the march away from hunting.

BB: some of the town folk who support hunting are people who support liberty and freedom. The opportunity to do what you like so long as it doesn't trouble others.

Anyway, we shall not be bringing our landrovers (sorry, Jo Jo) or our mud; we're all coming by train or coaches, and supporting all you mad anti-car people!

Finally, it is ALL about fishing. IFAW will not stop until they have fishing banned - have you not seen their anti-fishing advertisements? The only reason the Government hasn't mentioned fishing is because they perceive it as a hobby of lots of the core labour voters. Perhaps they'll ban fly fishing - which is done by 'toffs' rather than inner city dwellers on their canals and rivers.
Friday 20 September 2002 6.38pm
sorry, Kate, not Jo Jo - landrovers.
Friday 20 September 2002 7.23pm
I do believe it's a little pathetic to blame this on one political party.

Does Joanna Pearce (and many others) really have to be explained what Democracy means ?

Friday 20 September 2002 10.08pm
Hunting involves primitive and archaic rituals associated with a bloodlust which leaves a nasty taste in the mouth of any civilised person. There are indeed humane, quick and effective ways to kill any living being which do not involve being chased by a pack of baying dogs and braying humans until the creature is so tired it hasn't the energy to save itself.

This is a bloodsport which is enjoyed by the rich and privileged, amongst others, and the idea of culling is the way they try to justify an activity which is inherently barbaric. This is called cognitive dissonance - "I enjoy something which makes me realise that I am more similar to other predatory species than I like to admit, so if I find a specious reason to support it, I can fool myself that I am still evolved".

Now dog-fighting is a bloodsport of the poor - it still goes on in good old SE1 apparently, and is more evenly matched than a fox hunt. It serves a useful purpose if a dangerous dog is killed...anyone in favour of that, or would we prefer to see those dogs die a quick and reasonably pain-free death?

I echo the plea to not mix support of this in with other country "issues". If this is a march to support hunting then a title which fails to mention this explicitly is deliberately misleading. I wonder why...
Saturday 21 September 2002 12.21pm
I really could not give a damn about foxhunting one way or the other. But I do object to a bunch of inbred, rural toffs with overbites the size of Portland Bill banging on about so-called 'rural poverty' and 'lack of services' blar blar blar. If these stuck-up Tories (and yes whatever you say, this lot of scum ARE all Tories) want to see real poverty, why don't they come around to my council estate off the Old Kent Road. If we had only had a revolution like they had in France a few hundred years ago, they would all be extinct by now, and I would be free to enjoy the 'liberty' of being able to roam across my own country's fields and meadows, without the fear of being shot at or having the dogs set on me. If these fokkers want the "liberty" to roam with their hounds across fields and meadows hunting foxes, why don't they want the "right to roam" for the rest of us, to go walking? I will tell you why...its because they want their "liberty" but they don't want the city dwellers to have the same rights, even though what we do causes a lot less damage with walking boots rather than with hounds. They are scum the lot of them and I hope they all die soon. If you ever need reminding why, despite the fact New Labour are complete sell-outs, they are not as bad as a Tory government, just look at who is on that march tomorrow. For godsake, this scummy lot used to rule the country until 1997!!! Never forget that, when you next go near a ballot-box. Never again must this lot of scum be allowed anywhere near Whitehall.
Saturday 21 September 2002 12.30pm
inteligent reasoning there Jason.

Saturday 21 September 2002 1.16pm
I did hear yesterday that Conservative Central Office is hosting a drinks reception after the march and organising a photocall with all the members of the shadow cabinet taking part.

To keep the SE1 connection, reading the paper this morning I was interested to read about the "Oxo Tower Dozen" who are organising direct action in connection with the pro-hunting movement.
Saturday 21 September 2002 6.43pm
Wow, and I thought I lived in central London.

Isnt 'the countryside' somewhere people go to once they have discovered they can't afford private schools fees, but don't want to take on the state system, and/or can't afford the mortgagte on a bijou SE1 property.

If they can't stick it out in the gritty inner city, thats up to them. But why moan, and more to the point why disrupt our traffic for the day.

And incidently where is the counrtyside: somewhere beyond the M25?

My kids are fifth generation Londoners, and tell me one of their favourite things about London is building sites. That said they aspire to a house with a front garden and a garage by the side. Bless them. They probably want to live in a cul-de-sac and cycle around in the street. Maybe I will take them to the march so that they can get a taste of the countryside. Or instead I could take them to the cash and carry as a treat. And since most of their friends get taken to school in Fulham tractors they are pretty au fait with what the countryside might offer.
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