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Tooley Street lapdancing club

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Current: 10 of 16
Monday 3 July 2006 3.32pm
As far as I can see easyrecall the only Christian representative is the Dean of Southwark whose church is very close by. What this issue has to do with groups representing a minority religion based in Peckham and on the Old Kent Road is beyond me. And what has it got to do with the gentle residents of Shad Thames for that matter?

What the Very Rev Colin Slee said on the subject was provocative nonsense too but two wrongs don't make a right, etc.
Monday 3 July 2006 10.24pm
To quote Ivanhoe and add a little, "Hear Hear Jonathan K and Easyrecall". As with JK, I wouldn't have bothered about the Rembrandt if it operated in the same way as, for example, Spearmint Rhino. Since everyone got terribly het up about the issue (and gave the Rembrandt free publicity and recruiting space)and especially since Ken (who chooses to blatantly ignore far larger and more pressing issues while having love-ins with woman battering, student murdering and homo stoning types) has pitched in.

The Lord/Allah/whatever does move in mysterious ways.
Tuesday 4 July 2006 1.46am
Jonathan K wrote:
I find any religion telling people people who don't subscribe to their doctine how to live their life obnoxious.

I really didn't care either way whether this bar opens or not, but now think good luck to it especially if it winds up these religious types!

Now this is a rather interesting situation. Im a muslim as well as a "gentle resident" (Jonathan K's words not mine) of Shad Thames and so by Jon's definition I shouldnt really be getting all ticked off about a strip joint in the area. Surprisingly, despite my supposed remoteness i do have objections to the Rembrandt opening on Tooley street. But more on that later...

First a little nitpicking. All religions, specially the middle-eastern monotheistic ones, in essence tell people how to live their lives, so I dont think Islam has any exclusive ownership to its assumed (wrongly or rightly) higher moral ground. Hence the word "any" is redundant here. We live in a world where viewpoints are constantly aired, articulated, imposed and forced down our throats on a daily basis. why blame a few placard toting Muslims from Peckham for their joyous participation in this daily parade? They certainly aren't any more obnoxious than the church of George Bush and Tony Blair.

Now back to more pressing issues - atleast as far as my environs are concerned. I live in Shad Thames. As an open-minded Muslim i have no real moral objections to naked women who earn an honest living - though I would sincerely hope they are paid well and form a union to ensure that promoters and bar owners dont rip them off (horrid pun but intended). So this is not really a moral dilemma for me. Any women or men who wish to flaunt their skin are welcome to do so - though i would be far more appreciative of the latter. But as i said I live in Shad Thames - and my primary transport launch pad is London Bridge tube station. I like to go out. I would like to be able at night to use my normal route back home from the tube station without having to worry about passing a strip club on my way and without having to weave my way through the kind of audiences or hangers on it will probably attract. I can deal with the same in Soho but i dont want to live in Soho. I want to live in Shad Thames. I want to enjoy the Thames on my doorstep, the free concerts at the scoop, the "sinful" (ah my Muslim morality surfaces!)chocolate brownies from Konditor and Cook, the challenging art displays at the Tate Modern and the national theatre complex, the newly opened Siobhan Davies Dance studio near the Elephant and amazing dinners at the SE1 socials. But I didnt sign up for pole-ish fare when I moved here.

I also do not see the logic of spending millions on a children's theatre and then allowing the opening of a strip club 5 minutes from it. I find such lousy urban planning on the part of Southwark Council objectionable. I would also find the opening of the Unicorn theatre in Soho equally distasteful. No this time i'm not talking about the kids. The sex entertainment industry was there first. They have a right to protect their turf.

As do I. Me, a "gentle" resident of Shad Thames, aspiring liberal Muslim and late night forum message poster would like to banish the Rembrandt to anywhere but here.

I call it creative recycling.
Tuesday 4 July 2006 8.14am
Gosh fh, what are you doing posting at two oclock in the morning. But I agree wholeheartely. I wish everyone would follow his/her religion in the true spirit of all three of the great monoethiestic religions: Love your neighbour, do to others as you would have them do to you, be humble, be generous, be fair. Alas, these things get lost in rabble rousing and anger. Sad.

The lapdancing club is an odd import. WHY? Are there not enough places for this kind of thing without bringing it into Shad Thames? Who thinks it's a good thing? Anyone?
Tuesday 4 July 2006 9.32am
I don't think anyone has come out and said it's a wonderful thing that they're clamouring for, Jackie. I think the main non-objecting point(s) being made are that it's probably not such a heinous thing as the objectors claim, and that everyone from Mr Livingstone to the Hospital and the rough and ready residents of Shad Thames (only joking fh - but I was about to type "gentle" and that alternative popped into my head and sounded so nice) are making unsubstantiated claims about what the effects of this place will be.

We've had the hospital comparing a strip club to Club Wicked (which, if I've got it right, was a place where people went to have sex - quite different from somewhere people go to watch naked). And then we've had the hospital claiming that watching strippers is more likely to make you urinate in their grounds afterwards. And then there's all the people who claim there will be gangs of lecherous blokes hanging around outside, harassing passing women and children. Again, imho, I'd imagine that most customers wouldn't hang around outside, and that the management (wary of incurring Neighbourhood Wrath) wouldn't encourage it either.

I really don't care if they have the club or not. I think there are plenty of other more important things going on in the neighbourhood. I'd just like balanced debate about it.

...if you press it, they will come.
Tuesday 4 July 2006 10.43am
Does anyone know what kind of market the club is going to appeal to? Not all strip clubs are as salubrious as Spearmint Rhino - cf Brown's on Hackney Road in Shoreditch, which is delightful, and also open all day for the City boys to go to at lunch time.

It's interesting that its licence allows the club to open from 7am to 3.30am, and to sell alcohol from 9am. Is that so the mums and dads who are queueing with their kids for the Dungeon/War museum could pop in for a quick snifter and gawp whilst they're waiting?

I live just the other side of Shad Thames, and would echo fh's comments. London Bridge is the main transport hub for that area, and I don't particularly want to be walking home at night in the company of drunken men who are all excited at having seen naked bodies. The walk up Tooley Street is normally fairly quiet, and even if there aren't groups of people hanging around outside harassing passers-by, the thought that there might be one or two stragglers might be enough to put women off walking home alone, and how's that fair?
Tuesday 4 July 2006 10.48am
In Camden, the Lillith report showed that since the lap-dancing clubs opened there, there was a

57% rise in sexual assault

50% rise in rape

And that they also caused no-go areas for women.*

Of course, just because that happened in Camden doesn't mean it will happen in SE1, but is it worth the risk?

*'Lilith report on lap dancing and striptease in the borough of Camden', 2003
Anonymous User
Tuesday 4 July 2006 11.03am
The Lady Miss Jo Jo wrote:
In Camden, the Lillith report showed that since the lap-dancing clubs opened there, there was a...

Since it opened.

There surely isn't proof that it was the cause of the rise in sexual assualts and rape?

I'm amazed at these stats.
Tuesday 4 July 2006 11.35am
New twist in events:

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Tuesday 4 July 2006 11.37am
Why didn't anyone point this out before Kenneth spent all that money objecting?!
Current: 10 of 16

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