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Monday 18 September 2006 6.59pm
Jonathan, we don't disagree with each other on the perception that people have about cyclists. Nor that some cyclists disregard the highway code, jump red lights, etc.

But then, I watched as my wife and our two small children were nearly taken out by a navy blue Ford Fiesta on a nearby zebra crossing on Sunday. The guy decided to speed up and sound his horn despite the fact that they were using it correctly, forcing them to scurry across or risk being struck. I didn't catch his number as it happens, because I was too busy trying to ensure that I would still have a (living) wife and kids at the time.

Two days earlier, last Friday, I witnessed an articulated lorry parked up (lllegally) in Potters' Field, while the driver proceeded to read the paper and have a ciggie while waiting for the delivery time of his load of metal bars. Nothing so bad about that even if was illegal, you might say. Except that when a lady confined to a wheelchair protested politely to him that his lorry was blocking the dropped kerb that she needed to use, the driver refused to move and she was forced to go along Tooley Street for about 30 yards in the road, mixing dangerously with the traffic (white Scania lorry with blue trim, registration [noted but withheld], time 12.55pm).

You see the problem. I could start a thread about stupid and illegal motoring and before long, every disaffected pedestrian and cyclist with a tale to tell would be complaining about the problem, and then, who knows, we might even get a pressure group together (actually there already is one - Living Streets). Then we could pressure the GLA and TfL about it (they already have - public meeting at City Hall on 20 September). And off go the politicians again, chasing those elusive votes and spending our money in the process. Just...not spending it terribly intelligently.

In short, I share your annoyance about rogue cyclists but fail to see how cracking down on them is going to make anything other than a slight dent in road casualty rates. To paraphrase red_bus in his earlier posting, if rogue cyclists are stamped out, then both you and I will be happier - and motor vehicles will still keep trying to kill both of us, on or off the pavement.
Monday 18 September 2006 8.12pm
As a cyclist the various anti-cyclist feelings on the SE1 site have concerned, intrigued and irritated me.

There is no such thing as a typical cyclist.

How about:

Cyclists are more different than they are alike.

Discuss.
Tuesday 19 September 2006 10.54am
i agree Al,

Considering the statistic of bicycle/pedestrian accidents it would be a fair bet that the people who are being vocal against cyclists are simply prejudiced and not directly affected themselves.

When I see a cyclist on the pavement I have no objection whatsoever.

I have seen others who take exception and who feel its their 'duty' to give out - I am disgusted by this outward exhibition of sheer prejudice, its a bit sickening.

Our community has been built on tolerance and a 'live and let live' policy. Complaining about cyclists on the pavement truly shows their (newly arrived) colours. I do hope they dont complain when they in turn are faced with intolerance.

What goes around, comes around.

2c
Tuesday 19 September 2006 4.48pm
...is everyone finished?

Phew!
Tuesday 19 September 2006 8.07pm
Le Roi wrote:
i agree Al,
When I see a cyclist on the pavement I have no objection whatsoever.

I have seen others who take exception and who feel its their 'duty' to give out - I am disgusted by this outward exhibition of sheer prejudice, its a bit sickening.

Our community has been built on tolerance and a 'live and let live' policy. Complaining about cyclists on the pavement truly shows their (newly arrived) colours. I do hope they dont complain when they in turn are faced with intolerance.

What goes around, comes around.

2c

Replace "cyclist" with the appropriate term for the user of any other vehicle, and your view might change?

...if you press it, they will come.
Tuesday 19 September 2006 8.48pm
Deek, you can always just bike thru the park to avoid the road closure. The park allows cyclists and is even sign posted for cyclists.

Also don't tar all cyclists as menaces on the road. The majority of us obey the rules and have to put up with getting cut off by cars and pedestrians all the time.
Tuesday 19 September 2006 10.07pm
Al.W wrote:
As a cyclist the various anti-cyclist feelings on the SE1 site have concerned, intrigued and irritated me.
There is no such thing as a typical cyclist.

Well said

1)when I am driving my car I am dismayed by some cyclists lack of roadcraft and by some pedestrians lemming like use of the road
2)When I am cycling,other cyclists shoot past me at the red lights,cycling through bishopsgate today office workers threw themselves in my path.
3)when I am a pedestrian I anguish over cars/cyclists/buses scooters inability to follow proper codes of conducts

At the end of the day all these transgressions are the acts of individuals.

holder of a cycling profiency badge since 1978
SEH
Tuesday 19 September 2006 10.52pm
Jonathan K wrote:
No doubt that more people are killed or injured by motorised vehicles than by cyclists.
However, as a pedestrain I (and it seems many others) very rarely feel "threatened" by cars or lorries but do by cyclists...

I wonder whether Jonathan K hasn't identified the problem i.e. it's a matter of perception. We all know that cars and lorries can kill you and we all accept that the roads are full of them. Most of the time we give them a wide berth. We don't even bother to think "wouldn't it be fantastic if pedestrians and cyclists ruled the roads" - we're too busy trying to get across the road in one piece.

When we come across a cyclist in a place we don't expect them maybe we have a reaction that is "excessive" relative to the objective danger.

I write as someone who walks a lot, cycles most days and I drive my van to Borough Market and back twice a week because I trade there. I too am irritated by cyclists who jump red lights, cycle the wrong way up one way streets etc. I don't do this and I wish they wouldn't do it because it just gives non-cyclists a rod to beat us with while missing the real problem i.e. too many motor vehicles on our crowded roads!
Wednesday 20 September 2006 11.43am
Ivanhoe wrote:

Replace "cyclist" with the appropriate term for the user of any other vehicle, and your view might change?

Are you referring to the disabled using (motorised) wheelchairs, children on roller skates/scooters people pushing prams or pushchairs etc?

The stats dont support the attitude that there is a 'problem'. In the absence of statistics, are we not left with prejudice and intolerance to explain the 'debate'?

2c
Wednesday 20 September 2006 12.00pm
Lets face it the cycling on pavement issue has long been the BĂȘte noire on this site.I've seen many a thread hijacked to this effect.

even when we are given cycling lanes pedestrians invade them at will,giving me extreme attitude or verbal and I'm the type of person who never says a word.Stoney Street and Union Street being the most memorable for me.

Yet I'm sure no cyclists ever started a thread
"pedestrians get out of the cycle lane"
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